Legislature(2005 - 2006)Anch LIO Conf Rm

11/21/2005 01:00 PM House OIL & GAS


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01:10:15 PM Start
01:13:42 PM Discussion Regarding Independent Oil and Gas Companies in Alaska
04:15:28 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Teleconference --
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
Independent oil and gas companies in
Alaska - How to attract and encourage
them to invest, explore and do business
in the State. What barriers they face
and how the Legislature can help them.
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON OIL AND GAS                                                                           
                       Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                        
                       November 21, 2005                                                                                        
                           1:10 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Vic Kohring, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom                                                                                                  
Representative Lesil McGuire (via teleconference)                                                                               
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Berta Gardner                                                                                                    
Representative Beth Kerttula (via teleconference)                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Ralph Samuels                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault (via teleconference)                                                                               
Representative David Guttenberg (via teleconference)                                                                            
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DISCUSSION REGARDING INDEPENDENT OIL AND GAS COMPANIES IN ALASKA                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MARK HANLEY, Manager                                                                                                            
Public Affairs for Alaska                                                                                                       
Anadarko Petroleum Corporation                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of incentives for oil                                                                  
production in Alaska.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
KEN SHEFFIELD, President                                                                                                        
Pioneer Natural Resources Alaska, Inc.                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT: Testified  in support  of incentives  for oil                                                              
production in Alaska.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ARLEN EHM, Geological Consultant                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Testified   in  support  of  incentives  for                                                              
small-sized oil companies in Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
KEN BOYD, Oil and Gas Consultant                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT: Testified  on the subject  of incentives  for                                                              
oil production in Alaska.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MARK MYERS, Former Director                                                                                                     
Division of Oil and Gas                                                                                                         
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
POSITION  STATEMENT: Testified  on the subject  of incentives  for                                                              
oil production in Alaska.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DAVID BOELENS, Vice President                                                                                                   
Alaska Operations                                                                                                               
Aurora  Power  Resources  Inc.;   Aurora  Gas,  LLC;  Aurora  Well                                                              
Service; and Shirleyville Enterprises LLC                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION   STATEMENT:    Testified   regarding    laws   affecting                                                              
independent oil companies in Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DAN DONKEL                                                                                                                      
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Testified   in  support  of  incentives  for                                                              
independent oil companies in Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PAUL CRAIG, Owner                                                                                                               
Trading Bay Energy Corporation                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT: Testified  on  the bonding  difficulties  for                                                              
independent oil companies in Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DAVE LAPPI, President                                                                                                           
Lapp Resources                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of incentives  for small                                                              
oil companies in Alaska.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JIM WHITE                                                                                                                       
Alaskan Crude Corporation                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Testified that  the  oil industry  is  over-                                                              
regulated in Alaska.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR VIC  KOHRING called the House  Special Committee on  Oil and                                                            
Gas  meeting to  order at  1:10:15 PM.   Representatives  Kohring,                                                            
Gardner,  Rokeberg  and Dahlstrom  were  present  at the  call  to                                                              
order.     Representatives   McGuire   (via  teleconference)   and                                                              
Kerttula arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
^^DISCUSSION  REGARDING  INDEPENDENT  OIL  AND  GAS  COMPANIES  IN                                                            
ALASKA                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING  relayed that the  committee would be  seeking ideas                                                              
and  recommendations  from  independent   oil  and  gas  companies                                                              
regarding how  the state can spur  development and make  it easier                                                              
for them to operate  in the state.  He said that  he is frustrated                                                              
by the  fact that  the state  is not developing  its resources  as                                                              
aggressively  as he  thinks it should.   Although  Alaska  has the                                                              
greatest potential  of all  the states,  currently there  are only                                                              
four  wells  being drilled,  he  said.    He  said the  ideas  and                                                              
recommendations  offered  during  this meeting  could  potentially                                                              
engender forthcoming legislation.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:13:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK  HANLEY, Manager,  Public  Affairs,  Alaska Region,  Anadarko                                                              
Petroleum Corporation  (Anadarko), after mentioning  that he would                                                              
be referring  to a  PowerPoint presentation,  said that  generally                                                              
the system  is working.   There have been  a lot of  new companies                                                              
showing  up  in  Alaska  over  the last  five  or  six  years,  he                                                              
remarked,  such  as  "Armstrong,"  "British  Gas,"  Devon  [Energy                                                              
Production  Company,  L.P],  "ENI,"  Petro-Canada  [Alaska  Inc,],                                                              
"Pioneer,"  "Shell," "Talisman,"  Ultrastar  Exploration LLC,  and                                                              
others.  Therefore,  he surmised, the things currently  being done                                                              
are actually  having the desired  impact.   On the issue  of wells                                                              
being dug, he noted,  it takes longer in Alaska -  perhaps even as                                                              
long as  10 years  - from  "first thought"  to actual  production.                                                              
Therefore, the  price of oil right  now doesn't matter  as much as                                                              
what  the price  will be between  the  years 2015  and 2030.   Mr.                                                              
Hanley,  referring  to his  PowerPoint  presentation,  went on  to                                                              
describe some of Anadarko's financial and operational aspects.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:17:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANLEY relayed  that Anadarko tends to look  for larger anchor                                                              
fields, which  are larger,  stand-alone facility  fields  and tend                                                              
to  be farther  away from  existing infrastructure.   Such  fields                                                              
tend to  be higher-risk/higher-reward  operations,  he said.   New                                                              
companies   provide   competition,   partner   opportunities   and                                                              
educational   opportunities,  he   stated.     Referring  to   his                                                              
PowerPoint  presentation,  he said  "independents"  are  important                                                              
because  of  the   tremendous  amount  of  resources   in  Alaska,                                                              
although  accessing those  resources  does  come with  challenges,                                                              
such   as   high   costs,   long   "lead   times,"   and   limited                                                              
infrastructure relative to other places.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:20:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.   HANLEY  explained   that   companies   need  stable   taxes,                                                              
reasonable regulations  and access to infrastructure  and acreage.                                                              
With regard  to acreage  access, he  suggested that current  state                                                              
and federal  programs are  working well  and should be  continued.                                                              
With regard  to the  issue of regulations,  he said  that although                                                              
there  has been  lot  of  progress made  in  recent  years to  the                                                              
regulatory   process,   there   is   always   room   for   further                                                              
improvement; he  mentioned a couple  of recent regulatory  changes                                                              
which  have  assisted  what  he   characterized  as  "North  Slope                                                              
orientated" companies.   Regarding stable taxes,  he remarked that                                                              
Alaska  has had  such  for  some time  and  opined  that this  has                                                              
attracted companies.   In fact, he added, the  five-year incentive                                                              
program on  the North Slope that  was adopted a few years  ago has                                                              
influenced   the  decision-making   process   of  companies   like                                                              
Anadarko.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANLEY pointed  out that the results of any  incentive program                                                              
won't  be seen in  the first  [few years]  of implementation,  and                                                              
therefore the state  should consider extending  current incentives                                                              
for another five  years, beyond July 2007.  He  explained that the                                                              
incentives  are  necessary  because  one can't  predict  what  the                                                              
price of  oil will be in 10  years; therefore, incentives  such as                                                              
those   for  upfront   exploration  are   helpful  in   convincing                                                              
companies  to  start  drilling   now.    Mr.  Hanley  offered  his                                                              
understanding that  there has been  talk of rewriting  North Slope                                                              
tax structures as  the gasline negotiations continue.   This is of                                                              
concern  because   it  creates  uncertainty.    He   reminded  the                                                              
committee  that the  issues  for independents  aren't  necessarily                                                              
the same as for the existing players on the North Slope.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANLEY  then turned to  infrastructure access, which  has been                                                              
an  issue  for some  time.    Currently,  the  access on  the  oil                                                              
pipeline is  good.  The  concern for Anadarko,  he related,  is in                                                              
relation to the  rates.  Anadarko is currently  before the Federal                                                              
Energy  Regulatory  Commission  (FERC)  with a  challenge  to  the                                                              
interstate tariffs,  which Anadarko believes  is as much  as $1.70                                                              
a barrel too high.   That can have a fairly  significant impact on                                                              
exploration  economics,  he  opined.    Mr.  Hanley  said  that  a                                                              
gasline is needed  because it will, with proper  access, encourage                                                              
and accelerate gas  and oil exploration.  Mr.  Hanley concluded by                                                              
acknowledging   that  although   some   may   not  view   [gasline                                                              
negotiations]  moving  as aggressively  as  some  would like,  one                                                              
must keep  in mind  Alaska's unique  circumstances.  He  predicted                                                              
that there will be an increase in the number of wells.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:28:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  inquired   as  to  whether  there  is  a                                                              
timeframe with regard to restructuring the taxes.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANLEY answered  that [Anadarko] has expressed  its preference                                                              
for  60-90  days.    He emphasized  that  it  will  be  much  more                                                              
complicated than  the open season  regulations.  Thirty days  is a                                                              
short  time for evaluation,  he  opined.  In  further response  to                                                              
Representative Rokeberg,  Mr. Hanley confirmed that  Anadarko does                                                              
business  in areas  with varying  tax structures.   He offered  to                                                              
get back to the committee with additional data.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:30:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG inquired  as to  the recommendations  Mr.                                                              
Hanley would  give to the governor  in regard to the  contracts in                                                              
play at this time.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANLEY   related  his   belief  that   [Anadarko  and   other                                                              
independents]  have educated the  governor's staff regarding  fair                                                              
access  at   a  reasonable   price.     In  further  response   to                                                              
Representative  Rokeberg,  Mr.  Hanley  opined that  it  would  be                                                              
beneficial  for  there  to be  additional  contractual  provisions                                                              
beyond those of  FERC.  For example, although  there is facilities                                                              
access, not  all facilities  are regulated by  FERC.   Knowing the                                                              
rules of  the game before investing  is important, he opined.   He                                                              
highlighted that  the negotiations are complicated,  and therefore                                                              
as much time as possible is necessary to review the contract.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:33:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING thanked  Anadarko for its investment in  Alaska.  He                                                              
then offered  to work with Mr. Hanley  on an extension  of the tax                                                              
incentives currently in place.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:34:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEN  SHEFFIELD,  President,  Pioneer   Natural  Resources  Alaska,                                                              
Inc., (Pioneer),  began by  informing the  committee that  Pioneer                                                              
began its  investment in  Alaska in early  2003 with  the drilling                                                              
of  three  exploration  wells  in  the Beaufort  Sea.    In  2003,                                                              
Pioneer  significantly  expanded  its acreage  position  and  then                                                              
opened an office  in Anchorage in 2004.  Pioneer  now employees 22                                                              
people  in   Alaska,  he   said.     In  2004  Pioneer   concluded                                                              
exploration   agreements   with    ConocoPhillips   Alaska,   Inc.                                                              
(ConocoPhillips)  and  Anadarko  across  a  vast  portion  of  the                                                              
National  Petroleum Reserve-Alaska  (NPR-A)  and  has assembled  a                                                              
substantial portfolio  with an interest  in more than  1.6 million                                                              
gross  acres  across the  North  Slope.   More  recently,  Pioneer                                                              
acquired  a  10  percent  working  interest  with  the  option  to                                                              
acquire an  additional 40  percent interest  and possibly  succeed                                                              
ConocoPhillips  as the operator  of the  cosmopolitan unit  in the                                                              
Cook Inlet.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHEFFIELD  opined  that for  independent  companies  such  as                                                              
Pioneer  the  challenges to  building  a  business in  Alaska  are                                                              
formidable.    First,  the remaining  North  Slope  resources  are                                                              
nothing  like the original  fields  on the North  Slope.   Second,                                                              
the North  Slope is  one of the  highest cost  areas in  the world                                                              
regarding  capital, lease  operating and  transportation.   Third,                                                              
the  North Slope  projects have  comparatively  long cycle  times.                                                              
For   instance,   the  time   between   purchasing   a  lease   to                                                              
drilling/selling  oil  takes  from   5-10  years.    Finally,  the                                                              
largest  challenge   of  independents   on  the  North   Slope  is                                                              
uncertainty.   Mr.  Sheffield  said: "To  be  successful, we  must                                                              
properly assess and  make provision for a number  of uncertainties                                                              
related  to  future oil  and  gas  prices, current  and  potential                                                              
future  fiscal   policy,  regulatory  processes,   and  access  to                                                              
infrastructure,  not  to  mention  exploration risk."    The  long                                                              
cycle times  for Alaska  projects require  investments to  be made                                                              
against a  long-term view for  oil and  gas prices.   Although the                                                              
current  price is  over $50  a barrel,  he said  that the  10-year                                                              
average weighted  price is  less than  $25 a barrel.   Due  to the                                                              
cumulative  effect  of  all  the  costs,  the  long  time  between                                                              
investment  and cash  flow, and  the odds of  finding a  discovery                                                              
large enough  to justify  new infrastructure,  it's difficult  for                                                              
many  of  the remote  exploration  areas  on  the North  Slope  to                                                              
project  acceptable  full-cycle   returns.    In  2003  the  state                                                              
initiated  exploration  incentives  which encouraged  Pioneer  and                                                              
others to invest  more significantly in  infrastructure-challenged                                                              
areas such as NPR-A.   Mr. Sheffield opined that  the state should                                                              
consider  the effectiveness  of  the existing  program and  extend                                                              
the credits beyond the current expiration of July 2007.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:39:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD  pointed out  that for  exploration nearer  existing                                                              
infrastructure,  facility  access   and  commercial  terms  aren't                                                              
known with  a high degree of  certainty.  Furthermore,  the impact                                                              
of   third-party   production    into   existing   facilities   is                                                              
significant and complex.   Currently, Pioneer is  engaged with the                                                              
Kuparuk River  Unit owners in  cooperative negotiations  to access                                                              
facilities  to  process  production  from  the  proposed  Oooguruk                                                              
development.  Mr.  Sheffield opined that the state  must provide a                                                              
stable and competitive  environment for new investors.   Moreover,                                                              
the state  needs to ensure that  any future changes to  tax policy                                                              
don't  adversely  impact  the  resources   that  independents  are                                                              
working   to  commercialize.     Although   the  state  has   made                                                              
improvements  in   its  regulatory  process,   permitting  remains                                                              
complex  and  time  consuming,  he said.    Therefore,  the  state                                                              
should look to the  Alaska Oil and Gas Association  (AOGA) and the                                                              
permitting   methodologies   of   other  states   for   additional                                                              
streamlining opportunities.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD  stated that although  Pioneer currently has  no oil                                                              
production,  it envisions  the establishment  of a core  producing                                                              
area by 2010.   Pioneer is facing major investment  decisions over                                                              
the  next  few  years,  including   a  sanction  decision  on  the                                                              
Oooguruk development project.  Mr. Sheffield concluded:                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska  needs  billions  of dollars  of  new  investment                                                                   
     required  to   find  and  develop  fields   to  maintain                                                                   
     production  near  current levels.    Large  independents                                                                   
     have  global  portfolios  with   the  ability  to  shift                                                                   
     investment  to areas  with  the best  return and  lowest                                                                   
     risk.     Higher   commodity  prices   are  opening   up                                                                   
     significant lower  risk resource plays in the  Lower 48.                                                                   
     As decision  makers in  Alaska focus  on the future,  my                                                                   
     hope  is that  they will  stay  informed, recognize  the                                                                   
     cyclical  nature of  oil prices  and  make decisions  in                                                                   
     light of  what is best for  the long-term future  of the                                                                   
     state,  growing  new  supplies   of  oil  and  gas,  and                                                                   
     keeping Alaska competitive for investment.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:41:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked if Pioneer has tracked  the various                                                              
areas in regard to the credit benefits.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHEFFIELD  answered  that   to  date  the  vast  majority  of                                                              
Pioneer's  investments have  been in  NPR-A.   At this point,  the                                                              
majority  of Pioneer's  investments  in  the Central  North  Slope                                                              
haven't met  the requirements  to receive  the credits.   However,                                                              
Pioneer does  have future  investments that  will likely  meet the                                                              
credit requirements.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:42:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   KOHRING  recalled   Mr.   Sheffield's   comments  on   the                                                              
complicated  nature of  permitting, and  encouraged Mr.  Sheffield                                                              
to  share  specific  ideas  he has  with  the  committee.    Chair                                                              
Kohring  then  turned attention  to  coal  bed methane  and  asked                                                              
whether Mr.  Sheffield believes the  regulations for the  coal bed                                                              
methane industry are onerous and should be modified.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHEFFIELD  said that  he wasn't familiar  with the  details of                                                              
the  coal bed  methane  regulations.   He  explained that  Pioneer                                                              
came into  that process  late and its  decision to relinquish  its                                                              
acreage  were primarily  technical.   However, he  noted that  the                                                              
uncertainty of  the regulatory  process also influenced  Pioneer's                                                              
decision.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING  said that  he  would  be  happy to  entertain  any                                                              
suggested changes  necessary if  Pioneer again becomes  interested                                                              
in coal bed methane exploration.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:45:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ARLEN  EHM,   Geological  Consultant,   relayed  his   background,                                                              
including his Bachelor  and Masters degrees in geology.   He noted                                                              
that he  has been involved  in exploration  in Alaska for  over 40                                                              
years.  He further  noted that over the last 29  years he has been                                                              
a geological consultant  with clients including federal  and state                                                              
departments as  well as individuals.   Mr. Ehm said that  he would                                                              
restrict his remarks  to how to attract and  encourage independent                                                              
oil  and gas  companies to  invest,  explore, and  do business  in                                                              
Alaska.    He  said  the  term   independent  "is  often  used  to                                                              
differentiate  those  companies  that are  vertically  integrated,                                                              
usually  the  majors,  from  those that  are  not  so  integrated,                                                              
usually smaller companies  of an size.  This  vertical integration                                                              
refers to  the company being involved  with all phases  of the oil                                                              
and    gas   industry,    including   acquisition,    exploration,                                                              
production,  processing,  transportation,  and marketing.    Since                                                              
size  isn't   necessarily  a   factor  ...  large   non-integrated                                                              
companies  often refer  to  themselves as  independent  companies.                                                              
For the purposes  of my testimony  I do not include  companies the                                                              
size of  Anadarko, Pioneer,  Kerr-McGee, Marathon as  independents                                                              
whether or not they are vertically integrated."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  EHM  related  his  understanding  that  the  purpose  of  the                                                              
hearing was to  address the concerns of small  companies, which he                                                              
referred to  as the true  independents.   He said that  the larger                                                              
companies  can and  do solve problems  by "throwing  money  at the                                                              
problem."   However,  independents  don't have  the resources  for                                                              
such resolution.   He  said that his  testimony would  also relate                                                              
to potential  operators who may  be considering coming  to Alaska.                                                              
He   clarified  that   he  doesn't   include   lease  brokers   as                                                              
independent  operators -  they are  in the  business of  acquiring                                                              
and  brokering leases,  not  operating.   He  stated  that he  has                                                              
encouraged about  25 independent companies to come  to Alaska, and                                                              
nearly all  declined in  order to  avoid the  risk and  expense of                                                              
exploring  in  Alaska.    He  said  that  high  potential  is  not                                                              
incentive  enough  to  come.   Companies  are  not  interested  in                                                              
Alaska because  of high  entry costs,  high operating  costs, high                                                              
risk,  permitting   problems,  excessive  bureaucracy,   excessive                                                              
environmental constraints,  remote exploration targets,  long lead                                                              
times, seasonal  operation restrictions,  lack of  infrastructure,                                                              
and seasonal  access.   High entry  and operating  costs and  high                                                              
risk are  not problems that  the state  can or should  address, he                                                              
said, however,  if the policies  of the state cause  these factors                                                              
to increase,  the state  should  then correct  its policies.   Mr.                                                              
Ehm  emphasized   that  he  is  vehemently  opposed   to  anything                                                              
remotely suggesting state funding.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  EHM then  turned  to permitting  problems  and said  entities                                                              
interested  in operating in  Alaska have  reason to be  concerned.                                                              
He then  related examples of permitting  problems in which  he was                                                              
involved.  He  also related that each agency  has regulations that                                                              
must be  followed, although  he has been  told that  agencies have                                                              
discretionary  powers superseding  the regulations.   He  recalled                                                              
that a  few years ago  he spoke at  an conference during  which he                                                              
called  for   an  ad   hoc  panel   to  evaluate  all   permitting                                                              
regulations.     Although  the   proposal  received  a   round  of                                                              
applause,  no such  panel has ever  been assembled.   Some  permit                                                              
reform is  taking place,  but it's  woefully inadequate,  he said.                                                              
Governor Murkowski  requested that Mr.  Ehm compile a  report with                                                              
regard to  the problems  he encountered  while permitting  several                                                              
wells for  a client.  His  report included suggestions  to appoint                                                              
a  working   body  of  knowledgeable   individuals   charged  with                                                              
cataloging all  existing regulations impacting the  acquisition of                                                              
oil  and  gas  drilling  and production  permits.    He  said  the                                                              
working body  would develop the  following: a unified,  integrated                                                              
information  gathering  system  covering  all  agencies  to  avoid                                                              
duplication;  consistent forms  available for  applicants to  file                                                              
on  line;  an  accessible  system  for retrieval  by  all  of  the                                                              
agencies;  and   creation  of   review  boards  of   knowledgeable                                                              
specialists who  can write and  rewrite regulations  as necessary.                                                              
Mr.  Ehm  identified  the  largest problem  as  the  coastal  zone                                                              
questionnaire/form,  of which  only  a fraction  of the  questions                                                              
actually apply to  oil and gas operations.  This  form needs to be                                                              
simplified as to  purpose, he stated.  He opined  that oil and gas                                                              
operations could  and should be  covered by two pages  rather than                                                              
the nine pages that are currently used.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:56:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. EHM  said there  should be considerably  more information  and                                                              
cooperation  exchanged between  the  agencies  to avoid  excessive                                                              
bureaucracy.    He  said that  the  environmental  community  will                                                              
always be  a force,  and "by its  very nature  Alaska seems  to be                                                              
their playground."   He said the industry has to  comply with laws                                                              
that environmentalists  have  promulgated, but  he said the  state                                                              
could  be   more  active   in  supporting   exploration   for  the                                                              
extraction  of oil and  gas resources.   Remaining access  issues,                                                              
which were  mentioned earlier, are  of concern [for  independents]                                                              
as well.   However, the state  only has varying degree  of control                                                              
over some  of them.   He discussed some  of the difficulties  with                                                              
regard   to   the    lead-time   between   a   lease    sale   and                                                              
drilling/exploration.      He   also   discussed   the   lack   of                                                              
infrastructure as  well as seasonal  operation restrictions.   The                                                              
problems of  remote exploration are  exacerbated by the  state, he                                                              
said, because  regulations  require operators  to remove  roads if                                                              
the wells accessed by the roads are not successful.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:59:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  EHM concluded  by  opining  that the  state  can attract  and                                                              
encourage   independent   companies   to   come   to   Alaska   by                                                              
implementing  the  aforementioned  suggestions.   He  said  larger                                                              
companies will come  to Alaska without any  additional incentives.                                                              
He then  suggested that  the state  establish economic  incentives                                                              
for companies  below a  specified minimum  size, such  as lowering                                                              
the state royalty  for the initial production as  well as lowering                                                              
severance  and property  taxes.   He reminded  the committee  that                                                              
the independents  are the ones that  fill in gaps after  the major                                                              
[larger] companies have left.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:00:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. EHM, in  response to Representative Wilson,  indicated that he                                                              
would provide the letter he wrote to the governor.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:00:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG expressed his  concern with  the problems                                                              
Mr. Ehm  has had with  the bureaucracy  and suggested  that anyone                                                              
being hassled by  bureaucracy should bring it to  the attention of                                                              
the  legislature.   He  acknowledged  that the  legislature  can't                                                              
change the regulations without passing another statute.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING echoed Representative Rokeberg's comments.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:04:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEN BOYD, Oil  and Gas Consultant, informed the  committee that he                                                              
is  a  former  director  of  the  Division  of Oil  &  Gas  and  a                                                              
consultant to  EnCana Oil  and Gas, Inc.  (EnCana).   He explained                                                              
that EnCana, upon  arriving in Alaska, looked much  like Anadarko,                                                              
such  that it  was  well capitalized  and  knowledgeable.   EnCana                                                              
immediately  partnered with  Anadarko  to purchase  gas leases  in                                                              
the  Foothills   and  became  involved  with  the   McCovey  well,                                                              
although it  wasn't successful.   Mr. Boyd opined that  EnCana had                                                              
the same goals and  needs as outlined by Mr. Hanley.   With regard                                                              
to  why EnCana  left,  Mr. Boyd  said it  was  simply a  corporate                                                              
decision  to become  an  unconventional oil  company  that had  no                                                              
relation to Alaska.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:07:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOYD  recalled  10 years ago  when [oil  and gas  discussions]                                                              
always  included  the  same  needs  of  stable  taxes,  reasonable                                                              
permitting and  access to land.   He said access to land  isn't of                                                              
such concern  anymore.  The state's  leasing program 10  years ago                                                              
was done on a  nomination basis and was messy, and  from that came                                                              
legislation  implementing  areawide  leasing.   The  area  leasing                                                              
worked  and continues  to  work today.    Therefore, he  suggested                                                              
areawide  permitting.   The  state now  leases  in five  different                                                              
areas,  which  are  fairly  distinct  in  regard  to  geology  and                                                              
permitting.   He reminded  the committee  of  the creation  of the                                                              
best  interest  findings  [with  regard to  the  areawide  leasing                                                              
option].     Every  year   DNR  goes   out  for  substantial   new                                                              
information,  which  requires mitigating  the  change  alone.   He                                                              
questioned  why  such  a  process  wouldn't  work  for  permitting                                                              
because  it allows  one to think  over the  matter while  starting                                                              
with a core understanding that has been learned over time.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:14:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG asked  if Mr. Boyd  believes that  access                                                              
issues for  areawide leasing and  exploration licensing  have been                                                              
solved for the wildcat areas.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOYD replied  yes, adding that exploration  licensing fills in                                                              
the  gaps  where  there  is  no  leasing.    He  opined  that  the                                                              
exploration  licensing  program  has resulted  in  a well  in  the                                                              
Copper River  Basin and perhaps some  wells to come in  the Nenana                                                              
Basin,  which, he  argued, wouldn't  have been  drilled under  the                                                              
old program.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:16:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   ROKEBERG  asked   Mr.  Boyd's   opinion  of   the                                                              
exploration investment credits in NPR-A.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOYD said  he  believes that  exploration  credits and  other                                                              
incentives  can  work,  although  they  work  mostly  for  smaller                                                              
companies and  only for projects  on the  margin.  "I  don't think                                                              
it will cause a  dumb well to become a good well,"  he stated.  He                                                              
expressed  the need  for incentives  to be  carefully crafted  and                                                              
said that Alaska will never drill as many wells as Alberta.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:18:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  recalled  that  when Mr.  Boyd  was  the                                                              
director of  the Division of Oil  & Gas, he had to  administer net                                                              
profit  share leases.   He  asked  whether Mr.  Boyd believes  the                                                              
concept  of  frontloading  investment payback  is  beneficial  and                                                              
should be looked at.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOYD said  he does not know  what has been proposed,  but that                                                              
net profit share leasing isn't a good system.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING expressed  interest  in obtaining  further  details                                                              
from Mr.  Boyd regarding how  an areawide permitting  system could                                                              
be established.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:21:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK MYERS, Former  Director, Division of Oil and  Gas, Department                                                              
of Natural  Resources, said  the state has  a real opportunity  to                                                              
develop a stronger,  diversified industry base.   After working on                                                              
the  aforementioned  for five  years  with the  state,  he said  a                                                              
level  playing field  is critical,  and part  of the  government's                                                              
role should  be to ensure the  playing field is fair.   Therefore,                                                              
the regulated  utilities and  pipelines need effective  regulation                                                              
that is well  thought out, well designed, and  fairly implemented.                                                              
Because of the remoteness  of many of the river  basins, access to                                                              
infrastructure  is critical.   The  state can  continue to  review                                                              
building critical  infrastructure, such as the proposed  road from                                                              
the  Arctic National  Wildlife Refuge  (ANWR)  to Point  Thompson.                                                              
Furthermore,  once infrastructure  is created,  the value  of that                                                              
to everyone is  visible.  Therefore, key infrastructure  nodes can                                                              
be facilitated  by  government, although  they ultimately  require                                                              
industrial development.   The aforementioned  is apparent  in NPR-                                                              
A's alpine development.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  opined that  the state needs  to negotiate  fairly with                                                              
companies; although  once commitments are made the  companies must                                                              
be held  to them,  particularly in  regard to  explorers.   As the                                                              
basin  has more competition,  the  state should  hold firm  to its                                                              
commitments to turn over that land quicker.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:26:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS  said facility  access  is  another  major issue.    He                                                              
explained  that   nearer  infrastructure   plays  would   be  best                                                              
developed by using  existing capacity and facilities.   To achieve                                                              
the aforementioned,  commercial agreements between  all parties is                                                              
necessary.    To  date,  explorers   haven't  been  successful  in                                                              
obtaining  that  commercial  access.    He  highlighted  that  the                                                              
problem with  commercial  access is not  uncommon, although  other                                                              
areas  such as  the  North  Sea have  addressed  the  issue.   The                                                              
legislature, he  opined, will have  to become involved to  reach a                                                              
resolution with commercial  access.  He highlighted  that the good                                                              
news is  [that resolving the  commercial access problem]  would be                                                              
a win-win situation  such that a handsome rate of  return could be                                                              
paid to the existing  facility owners while the  state would enjoy                                                              
more production,  accelerated development, and  less environmental                                                              
impact.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS   noted  his   agreement  with   Mr.  Boyd   that  it's                                                              
appropriate  to  do  anything  that  can  be  done  to  streamline                                                              
permitting  without  minimizing  its  importance.    However,  the                                                              
state does need  to take care when it changes major  policies like                                                              
oil  and  severance  taxes  as   it  effects  different  operators                                                              
differently,  and  therefore the  dialogue  should  be public  for                                                              
everyone involved  to respond.  He acknowledged  the difficulty to                                                              
do so when  political goals are  involved.  Mr. Myers  pointed out                                                              
that  with  more  exotic  state  ownership  structures  there  are                                                              
significant  questions  if the  state  is  a competitor  with  the                                                              
companies  it's  trying to  attract.    With regard  to  incentive                                                              
programs, he  suggested reviewing  those that have  been effective                                                              
in generating  the intended behavior  in order to  determine which                                                              
programs to  retain and  remove.   Mr. Myers said  he is  proud of                                                              
some of  the incentives passed by  the legislature, such  as those                                                              
on  the  automatic  royalty  reduction on  the  platforms.    With                                                              
regard  to  new  incentives,  he  encouraged  the  legislature  to                                                              
review  what will  impact the  [targeted] behavior.   He  stressed                                                              
the  need to  hold  the  administration  to what  the  legislature                                                              
intended with the  laws that it passes.  Mr.  Myers identified the                                                              
royalty reduction program  as one that's working as  intended.  In                                                              
conclusion,  he urged  the committee  not to  reinvent the  wheel,                                                              
not  to shortcut  the public  process,  and to  know the  intended                                                              
consequences of a proposed incentive.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:33:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   KOHRING   turned   attention    to   seismic   information                                                              
accumulated by seismic  banks and asked if that  information could                                                              
be shared  with companies interested  in evaluating  formations to                                                              
determine the potential for oil and gas.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS answered  that generally  seismic data  is acquired  by                                                              
companies  to sell  it  to specific  parties,  or it's  done on  a                                                              
specific  request  by a  company  or  a consortium  of  companies.                                                              
Under  state   statute  that  data  stays   confidential  forever,                                                              
although well  information is  made public  after a certain  time.                                                              
He   acknowledged   that   the  timeframe   the   information   is                                                              
confidential  must be long  enough that  the commercial  value and                                                              
proprietary  nature of  it is  preserved.   He  opined that  after                                                              
perhaps 10-20  years, [the  seismic data]  should be made  public.                                                              
He noted  that in a  few cases some  seismic data is  made public.                                                              
For  entities that  take  advantage of  the  40 percent  incentive                                                              
credit,  the  data becomes  public  after  10  years.   Mr.  Myers                                                              
related his  belief that  it would  greatly enhance the  viability                                                              
of new entrants if the older data were made publicly available.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:34:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING   thanked  Mr.   Myers  for   his  work   with  the                                                              
legislature over the years.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:35:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG   agreed  that  the   legislature  should                                                              
review  what it  has  passed and  determine  what's  working.   He                                                              
asked how  the legislature  would do  that.   He further  asked if                                                              
the legislature should hire consultants to perform a review.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS reminded  the committee  that  during budgetary  review                                                              
the agencies go  through the missions and measures  process.  That                                                              
process could be  required to include evaluation of  the amount of                                                              
money spent,  the number of  wells drilled  and the number  of new                                                              
discoveries.   He agreed  that the  Division of Oil  & Gas  or the                                                              
Department  of Revenue  could check  its work.   He recalled  that                                                              
the  division did  review many  of  the incentives  and that  data                                                              
could've  been shared  with  the  legislature, although  it  takes                                                              
time  and  an   individual  in  the  legislature   to  review  it.                                                              
Therefore, he recommended  that the legislature retain  an oil and                                                              
gas  consultant to  perform  the aforementioned.    In the  short-                                                              
term, he  suggested requesting  that the agency  do so  every five                                                              
or  so years.   In  further response  to Representative  Rokeberg,                                                            
Mr.  Myers  explained   that  the  royalty  reduction   under  [AS                                                            
38.05.180(j)]  allows  [the  incentive  to  be  in  place]  before                                                              
production, which  provides DNR flexibility and allows  the upside                                                              
to be  captured.   Mr. Myers  specified  that he  is aware of  two                                                              
outstanding applications.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:37:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG asked  if the  legislature should  review                                                              
its boilerplate language in the state's leases.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  said he believes there  is a requirement,  although not                                                              
in  the  primary  term  of the  lease.    Therefore,  in  eligible                                                              
jurisdictions, a  drilling commitment is required  after the fifth                                                              
year.  One  approach, he said,  is leases could be  conditioned to                                                              
require  either drilling  or relinquishment  on  an earlier  date.                                                              
Another  approach, he  said, is  that  after a  lease reaches  its                                                              
primary term,  "we" form  units and  commit a  drilling.   At that                                                              
point,  the  department  has  historically  required  a  specified                                                              
number  of wells  to  be  drilled within  a  specified  time.   He                                                              
opined that the  aforementioned commitments become the  basis of a                                                              
stronger  drilling commitment  such  that failure  to meet  [those                                                              
commitments]   means  the  relinquishment   of  the   acreage  and                                                              
sometimes reimbursement  to the state  for what the state  lost by                                                              
not releasing  it.  Point Thompson  is an example of a  lease with                                                              
such a  requirement for  this winter.   That requirement  has been                                                              
stayed, and therefore  the state missed the opportunity  to have a                                                              
critical well  drilled.   If the state  allows that,  the division                                                              
can  no longer  negotiate  those  commitments and  feel  confident                                                              
that those commitments  will be held.  If there's  a political way                                                              
to  undo   it,  the  commitments   are  meaningless,   he  stated.                                                              
Therefore,  there should be  very good  reasons for changing  such                                                              
commitments.   He then  expressed the need  for the  government to                                                              
fairly  and  consistently   manage  its  commitments.     He  said                                                              
independent companies  either drill  or relinquish,  and typically                                                              
the major  companies will honor  the commitment or  relinquish the                                                              
acreage and pay  it back.  But once the state  "starts interfering                                                              
with  that natural  process, then  there's really  no ability  for                                                              
the state to enforce any of its negotiated provisions."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:41:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  BOELENS,   Aurora  Power,  Aurora  Gas  LLC,   Aurora  Well                                                              
Service,  Shirleyville  Enterprises  LLC, informed  the  committee                                                              
that "we"  have five  existing producing  gas  fields on the  west                                                              
side of  Cook Inlet.   There have been  quite a few  successes and                                                              
some  disappointments  since arriving  in  Alaska  in  2000.   Mr.                                                              
Boelens said  that he  doesn't really  view other independents  as                                                              
competition  because Alaska  is a  very tough  environment.   Many                                                              
issues  and challenges  have arisen  with regard  to operating  in                                                              
Cook Inlet,  some of  which have already  been mentioned,  such as                                                              
access  to existing  pipeline  infrastructure,  the  need for  new                                                              
infrastructure,  fiscal  stability,  royalty  and  tax  valuation,                                                              
regulatory and  permitting, contractor  support, and the  need for                                                              
incentives focused  on Cook Inlet gas issues.   Access to existing                                                              
pipelines  and  infrastructure  in  Cook  Inlet  is  critical,  he                                                              
opined.   He noted that there  has been some progress  on pipeline                                                              
issues with  the Regulatory Commission  of Alaska.  He  added that                                                              
there needs to be  economical ways to get to the  pipelines if the                                                              
state  is going  to  attract  new  independent operators  to  Cook                                                              
Inlet.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS highlighted  that  on  the west  side  of Cook  Inlet                                                              
there  are no  bridges, and  everything has  to be  brought in  on                                                              
landing  craft or  flown  in.   Mr. Boelens  said  that "we"  have                                                              
ended  up  in  the position  of  re-opening  and  building  roads,                                                              
building  bridges, extending  power lines  or setting  generators,                                                              
and other things  that wouldn't have to be done in  other parts of                                                              
the  country.    Therefore,  he suggested  that  the  state  could                                                              
review having  some role in  development, like bridges  and roads,                                                              
on the west  side of Cook Inlet.   Furthermore, much of  the lands                                                              
that have  been developed  in the Cook  Inlet are either  offshore                                                              
or  around  the  coast, where  putting  a  runway,  for  instance,                                                              
couldn't  be  done  today.    He   said  surrounding  game  refuge                                                              
regulations  and  winter sea  ice  can restrict  activity,  making                                                              
operations in the Cook Inlet costly.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:47:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOELENS agreed  with earlier testimony regarding  the need for                                                              
fiscal  stability  and  [consistent]  rules.    He  requested  not                                                              
changing the rules  to accommodate North Slope  operations without                                                              
considering  the impacts to  Cook Inlet  operations.   With regard                                                              
to royalty and  taxation for independents, Mr.  Boelens noted that                                                              
there  is the  prevailing  value trap,  which  specifies that  the                                                              
royalty  and  taxation is  going  to  be  paid on  the  prevailing                                                              
value,  which is the  average of  a series  of utility  contracts.                                                              
However,  the  larger   producers  tend  to  have   those  utility                                                              
contracts,  and thus  new producers  can't get  the contracts  and                                                              
have to find someone  that needs gas, or they must  sell gas to an                                                              
entity that already  has a contract.  That can  sharply reduce the                                                              
selling price, he  noted.  He said, "if it's an  arm's length deal                                                              
between  the producer  and  whoever they're  selling  the gas  to,                                                              
that should  be good enough  for taxation,  and the state  did fix                                                              
that in the  case of Agrium.   The new contracts with  Agrium were                                                              
at  the  value that  it  was  cut;  it's  not at  the  average  of                                                              
Chugach's  electric or  ENSTAR's  or anybody  else's contract,  as                                                              
far as what they're going to pay the royalty taxes on."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:49:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG related his  understanding then  that the                                                              
royalty and  taxes are being paid  based on other values,  not the                                                              
actual cost of the sale of the transaction.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:49:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS  agreed.   He  said  regulatory and  permitting  have                                                              
gotten better;  however, he related  his experience  in installing                                                              
a power  line and  "it was an  eye-opener."   He said  his company                                                              
did the  wetland assessment, the  coastal zone management  process                                                              
and the  storm water  plan, which  made permitting expenses  about                                                              
one  third of  the  total $125,000  project  cost.   He  mentioned                                                              
spacing  exceptions  and  acknowledged that  state  employees  are                                                              
merely enforcing  the regulations,  however he questioned  whether                                                              
they always  make sense.   With  regard to  utility contracts,  he                                                              
said, new  companies have the  issue of  what they're going  to do                                                              
with their gas.   Therefore, it's a big issue for  new entrants to                                                              
discover  a situation  in which  there are  no unmet  requirements                                                              
because the utilities  have dedicated 100 percent  to the existing                                                              
producers.  He  related that prospectors love the  geology of Cook                                                              
Inlet until  the question arises  regarding how one will  sell the                                                              
gas.  Although he  acknowledged that Agrium will buy  gas, but the                                                              
future of  Agrium is unclear.   "So there's some  real uncertainty                                                              
here having utilities  with all these unmet requirements  met," he                                                              
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS, in  response to  Representative Rokeberg's  question                                                              
about unmet  requirements, said,  "ENSTAR has signed  these tiered                                                              
contracts  where Unocal  will  supply the  gas  and Marathon  will                                                              
supply the gas."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  surmised then that there's  no market for                                                              
future  reserves that  may be  discovered  if ENSTAR  is the  only                                                              
buyer.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOELENS  concurred, adding that  his concern is that  there is                                                              
no set-aside on these utility contracts for another producer.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked if set asides are  typical in other                                                              
jurisdictions.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS pointed  out  that normally  the  market wouldn't  be                                                              
stranded; "You  find your gas, you  put it in the system,  and off                                                              
it goes."   Furthermore,  he pointed  out there  isn't a  critical                                                              
mass with  regard to  good support  contractors,  as in the  Lower                                                              
48, but the legislature probably can't address that.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:55:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS,  turning  attention   to  incentives,  informed  the                                                              
committee  that [Aurora  Gas] has  drilled eight  new wells,  five                                                              
side   tracts  and   "three  non-rig   work-over   interventions,"                                                              
spending about  $38.6 million.  Two  of the eight wells  have been                                                              
dry, he said,  and if the dry  wells were the first  ones drilled,                                                              
the  company  would  not  be  in   Alaska  today.    There  aren't                                                              
incentives for small  producers to mitigate a situation  like that                                                              
and to  want to  remain or  enter Cook  Inlet.   He noted  that he                                                              
didn't want a  give-away program, so he questioned  how incentives                                                              
could be structured.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:58:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  addressed the  lack  of incentives,  and                                                              
said he thought the legislature passed a Cook Inlet credit.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOELENS  said his company  was able  to take advantage  of the                                                              
seismic  credit,  but  there  is no  incentive  for  drilling  the                                                              
wells, and  he believes the company  is not eligible  for anything                                                              
"when you consider where we operate."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  said  that he  believes  the  incentives                                                              
have been specific to certain prospects or for lower capacity.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS  noted   that  his  company's  Nicolai   Creek  field                                                              
qualified for a royalty reduction.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  said he  believed  that the  legislature                                                              
passed a  facilities tax credit  for gas "about three  years ago."                                                              
He  asked if  that helped  for delivering  the gas  from the  well                                                              
site to the distribution system.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOELENS replied no.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   ROKEBERG  recalled   that  Marathon   "was  quite                                                              
involved in that," and he thought it had broader applications.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS  said  his  company   has  talked  about  allowing  a                                                              
producer of coal  bed methane "to come over the top  of what we've                                                              
got and work  out a deal to  access pipelines and  compressors ...                                                              
we're happy to see them come."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  asked  of his  company  has  encountered                                                              
coal.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS said  yes, and  coal is  a big  drilling hazard,  "in                                                              
fact Beluga  coal fields  overlie a  lot of  the stuff  that we're                                                              
doing."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked what kind of incentives  would help                                                              
his company operate and would invite competition.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOELENS said  he would like to see a program  to support rural                                                              
bridges and  roads, as  well as a  reasonable incentive  for well-                                                              
drilling  costs  to mitigate  risk.    He  said  he did  not  know                                                              
exactly what that incentive would look like.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:02:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT  asked if Aurora  Gas LLC looked  at House                                                              
Bill 61, regarding an income tax credit.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOELENS  answered  that  it  depends  on  how  a  company  is                                                              
structured; it doesn't help a limited liability company.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 3:04 p.m. to 3:06 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:06:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN  DONKEL  said   he  would  like  improvements   in  attracting                                                              
independent oil and  gas exploration in Alaska.  He  noted that he                                                              
has over 20 years  of experience in the oil and  gas business.  He                                                              
said he  has witnessed  dramatic improvements  in Alaska  over the                                                              
past years  due to excellent laws  that were recently passed.   He                                                              
said Alaska is  heading in the right direction,  and every Alaskan                                                              
should  be  grateful to  the  legislature  for the  following:  an                                                              
increase  in  acreage  limitation,  the  reduction  of  state-wide                                                              
royalties, tax credits,  the Alaska Stranded Gas  Development Act,                                                              
areawide  lease sales,  shallow  gas leasing,  the economic  limit                                                              
factor,  exploration incentive  credits,  and discovery  royalties                                                              
for Cook Inlet.   He opined that  it was not an easy  task for the                                                              
legislature  to "accomplish  all  these great  achievements."   He                                                              
stated  that  the  legislature  needs  promotional  and  education                                                              
materials  to promote  those incentives.   He  suggested funds  to                                                              
create publications;  "It doesn't cost  that much, and we  can use                                                              
recycled paper."   He said  if independent producers  become aware                                                              
of the welcome  mat that Alaska  has put out, the state  would see                                                              
an  increase in  the average  daily rig  count, "like  we have  in                                                              
Texas."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONKEL  stated that  there is much  more room for  improvement                                                              
as evidenced by  Alaska having only one percent of  what Texas has                                                              
in  terms  of drilling  rigs.    Only  seven  rigs are  active  in                                                              
Alaska, he  noted, and  with four million  acres of  leases, there                                                              
is only one  well for every million  acres.  He said  Alaska needs                                                              
more wells.   He  said if  Alaska builds  the gasline,  "they will                                                              
come."  If Alaska  makes regulations that inspire  people to drill                                                              
and risk capital, "I think we can make for a better Alaska."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING  said he likes that  comment, "Tear down  that wall,                                                              
reminiscent of Ronald Reagan."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONKEL  said the  state needs  to tear down  the wall  of only                                                              
seven  rigs  versus  the 600  rigs  in  Texas.    He said  at  the                                                              
Resource  Development Council,  he  asked the  question of  Exxon,                                                              
ConocoPhillips  Alaska,  Inc.,  and British  Petroleum,  and  only                                                              
Anadarko responded.   Anadarko said it will never  happen, but Mr.                                                              
Donkel said  he disagreed because Alaska  is 2 1/2 times  as large                                                              
as Texas.  But  he said Alaska is dead last in the  number of rigs                                                              
of all  oil-drilling states,  and "this  is a  sure sign  that the                                                              
rules and policies  are out of sink  with the rest of  the nation,                                                              
and need to be revised and improved upon."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:13:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONKEL  said  he has been  in court  during all  his years  in                                                              
Alaska  due to  "unreasonable, discriminatory,  and unlawful  acts                                                              
by  state agencies."   He  noted  that the  Department of  Natural                                                              
Resource and  its Division  of Gas violated  his right to  own oil                                                              
and gas leases in  the Cook Inlet.  He said the  Redoubt Shoal oil                                                              
field  was taken  away  from  him, and  the  actions  of DNR  were                                                              
unforgivable,  and  caused  his  company  to  be  dissolved.    He                                                              
discussed   his  altercations   and  court   actions  with   state                                                              
agencies,  and  said  "this  isn't the  sort  of  incentives  that                                                              
independent  risk  takers, or  anyone  else, find  welcoming  when                                                              
they consider coming to Alaska."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:18:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.   DONKEL  related   another   court  case   illustrating   the                                                              
difficulty in operating  in Alaska, "even with all  the great laws                                                              
that this  legislature has passed in  recent years."  He  said the                                                              
problem is  that the state owns  99 percent of Alaska,  and "if we                                                              
have a  dispute with our  landlord, they  are our judge,  jury and                                                              
executioner."   He noted  that DNR was  separated from  the Alaska                                                              
Oil  and Gas  Conservation Commission  (AOGCC), but  the same  law                                                              
firm  still   represents  both.     The  11th  amendment   of  the                                                              
Constitution  guarantees  sovereignty,  he  said.    He  told  the                                                              
committee  that he  came  to Alaska  in 1986  as  oil prices  were                                                              
crashing and  was the only one  buying leases.  "I  bought 100,000                                                              
acres.   Formed an oil  company.  Living  the American  dream," he                                                              
said.   People asked him  why he never  drilled, and he  said that                                                              
the rules  changed.  He  spoke of a former  judge who heard  a DNR                                                              
director  say that  DNR  can do  anything it  wants  to small  oil                                                              
companies and  they can't  do a  "damn thing about  it."   He said                                                              
his  company, Danco,  got  "beat  up pretty  badly,"  but that  he                                                              
dissolved the  company and  didn't go bankrupt.   Now  his clients                                                              
get royalty checks  every month, he noted, because  he never gives                                                              
up.  He said it is time for change.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:24:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DONKEL  said Alaska should  consider Kansas as  a self-insured                                                              
state, and  the untouched oil  spill contingency fund  proves that                                                              
we have don't have  "renegades coming up here and  making a mess."                                                              
He  suggested eliminating  every  single bonding  requirements  in                                                              
the state.   He  said the  state could  "back it  up with  the 470                                                              
fund.  That  way you will see  massive amount of people  coming to                                                              
Alaska."  He said  if anyone spills oil, other  oil companies will                                                              
"tar and feather  and run out [that operator]  of town themselves.                                                              
You won't  have to  do it."   The state  doesn't need  the bonding                                                              
requirements,  he added,  as  well as  the  oil spill  contingency                                                              
plan  which kills  competition.    He said,  "We  should have  the                                                              
right to  trial de  novo" because  the state owns  99% of  all the                                                              
land and  shouldn't be judge and  jury.  "Absolute  power corrupts                                                              
absolutely," he  said, and the governor  appoints the oil  and gas                                                              
commissioners,  the  attorney general  and  others.    He said  if                                                              
Alaska could  double its "rig count"  it could double the  size of                                                              
the Alaska  Permanent  Fund check.   He said  Alaska should  elect                                                              
the  Attorney General,  and  should  consider creating  an  Alaska                                                              
version of  the Texas  railroad commission, and  have all  oil and                                                              
gas  agencies  under   one  roof  with  an   elected  three-person                                                              
commission.   Oil is a  major source of  income for the  state, he                                                              
said,  so the  state  should spend  the money  to  "make the  best                                                              
system of  justice money can  buy."  He  said what works  in Texas                                                              
can  work in  Alaska.   He said  he does  not know  one person  in                                                              
Alaska who is actually  producing a well.  Mr. Donkel  asked how a                                                              
stripper  well could produce  four or  five barrels  a day  when a                                                              
$1.2 million bond  is required.  He said he has  hope and faith in                                                              
this committee.   He said  the Alaska capital  should be  moved to                                                              
Pt. McKenzie so it  will be closer to him.  Mr.  Donkel offered to                                                              
help the  committee  in its mission  to achieve  a better  Alaska.                                                              
And he said  the state needs to  produce more oil for  the good of                                                              
the country.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[Due to technical  difficulties, the transmission  stopped at 3:32                                                              
p.m.]                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:34:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL CRAIG, Owner,  Trading Bay Energy Corporation,  said he would                                                              
like to  testify on bonding,  but noted  that there are  six areas                                                              
that  need  area-wide   permitting,  because  there   is  a  large                                                              
difference between  onshore and  offshore drilling in  Cook Inlet.                                                              
He  said he  has gone  through the  permitting  process for  three                                                              
wells  in 1996.   In  that process  he had  to pay  $1 million  in                                                              
bonds to DEC  for oil spill contingencies, $100,000  to AOGCC, and                                                              
$10,000 to  DNR, he stated.   He said  he quickly discovered  that                                                              
no one  sells those bonds  in Alaska, "even  if I had the  cash to                                                              
put  a  million dollars  up  as  security  for the  bond,  bonding                                                              
companies  weren't very interested  in issuing  me that  financial                                                              
instrument  for fear  that  by doing  so they  would  not just  be                                                              
responsible  for the  million dollars  that  I've already  posted,                                                              
but that putting  their name on the line may put  them in the path                                                              
of much  greater financial  responsibility  if there were  another                                                              
disaster such as the Exxon Valdez."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CRAIG  said that in 1996,  he researched bonding  requirements                                                              
for a single  well around North America, and  Kansas only required                                                              
a "cement bond"  at the top of  the well, or a $0 bond.   Oklahoma                                                              
had  the   highest  at  $55,000.     He  said  the   average  bond                                                              
requirement was  $13,950, and he figured that  Alaska requirements                                                              
were  76 standard  deviations from  the  mean.   "It's crazy,"  he                                                              
said, "there  is not justification for  that."  Oil spills  do not                                                              
occur  with   properly  equipped   exploratory  wells,   but  with                                                              
transportation and  production, he  opined.  He said  independents                                                              
have no interest  in "tying up a million dollars  capital ... when                                                              
they could  be drilling  two, three,  four wells  in the  lower 48                                                              
with  that capital  and generating  revenue  from it."   He  noted                                                              
that  it is  not an  issue for  larger  companies.   If the  state                                                              
wants  smaller companies  to come,  changes  need to  be made,  he                                                              
stated.  On  a positive note, he  said, after 12 years  of effort,                                                              
one  of the  two companies  he owns  will be  drilling the  Hannah                                                              
prospect.    He said  things  are  possible when  partnering  with                                                              
other small  entities.  He said  that laws have improved  but only                                                              
1-2 percent of the changes that need to be made, have been made.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:41:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING said he looked forward to discussing bonding.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:41:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  asked Mr.  Craig  if he  had  to put  up                                                              
actual cash.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CRAIG said  that unlike  insurance,  bonds need  an asset  to                                                              
back  it  up.   He  said  with  a liquid  asset,  companies  would                                                              
consider giving him  a bond.  "Obviously people  are getting these                                                              
bonds somehow and meeting their bonding requirements," he said.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  asked Mr.  Craig if  he  was aware  that                                                              
bonds have been issued by insurance underwriters in Alaska.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CRAIG said  that back  in 1996  he  was not  assured that  he                                                              
could acquire  a bond even if he  had a $1 million asset  to post,                                                              
but he guessed  that if he had  $1 million cash, he  could get the                                                              
bond,  but he  could probably  do something  more profitable  with                                                              
the money.   Bonding  is a  large barrier  to small companies,  he                                                              
said.   In  his  Hannah prospect,  he  is the  minority  interest-                                                              
working  partner, and  by partnering  with Aurora  he can  get the                                                              
project done.   He  can "slip around"  the $1 million  requirement                                                              
because he won't be drilling through oil.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:45:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVE  LAPPI,  President,  Lapp   Resources,  Inc.,  said  he  will                                                              
discuss  disincentives for  small companies  in Alaska,  including                                                              
land access,  permitting, bonding,  and regulation of  production.                                                              
He  said that  land is  accessible  and available  for lease,  but                                                              
smaller companies need  lower prices.  The bidding  process is not                                                              
suited to  small independents, he  said, and he proposed  reducing                                                              
the minimum  bid in exchange  for a shorter  lease term.   He also                                                              
suggested  allowing exploration  license  applications year  round                                                              
instead  of  only  in April  to  encourage  more  exploration  and                                                              
development.   He said Alaska  should reinstitute the  shallow gas                                                              
leasing  program, with  controls  in populated  areas to  mitigate                                                              
some  of  the impacts.    He  said  the program  would  result  in                                                              
commercial  production  in  areas  that  are  not  served  by  gas                                                              
pipelines  or  are running  short  of  gas,  like the  Cook  Inlet                                                              
Basin.   He  said he  thinks the  permitting process  needs to  be                                                              
streamlined   further  with   a  set   of  standard   pre-approved                                                              
applications.  He  also suggested eliminating air  quality permits                                                              
for individual drill  sites, and instead permit  the drilling rig,                                                              
not the  drill site.   He said  the rig could  have an  annual I/M                                                              
test  like cars  do now.   The  air  quality permits  can be  very                                                              
expensive if DEC  decides to require computer modeling  of the air                                                              
quality around  the rig site, he  added.  He noted that  the state                                                              
gets billions  of dollars in various  production taxes on  oil and                                                              
gas each  year, and  it should consider  underwriting some  of the                                                              
costs  and  self-bond   the  risks  associated   with  exploratory                                                              
drilling.   He said  actual spill  statistics  prove that  most of                                                              
the risk  of a large spill  is from transportation  and production                                                              
of oil.   He said  that the regulation  of production needs  to be                                                              
fair and  impartial regarding  leasing, exploration  and drilling.                                                              
Very few  companies  will come if  the perception  is that  Alaska                                                              
favors  large  companies  over  small  companies,  he  said.    He                                                              
concluded that improvements  be made and, "the  measure of success                                                              
would be that  individual Alaskans actually have  working interest                                                              
in oil and gas producing assets of their own."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:51:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING  asked Mr. Craig to  elaborate on his  suggestion of                                                              
a streamlined permitting process.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAPPI said  a standard drilling application  approved speedily                                                              
at a  low cost would  be good.   He said  the shallow  gas leasing                                                              
program is good,  and if others have problems with  the impacts of                                                              
the program,  he said he thinks  there are ways to  mitigate them.                                                              
The leasing  program should  not be based  on competitive  bid but                                                              
on  "application first in, first served."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:53:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG asked  about  Mr. Craig's  review of  the                                                              
"the  most  recent   rewrite,  making  shallow  gas   part  of  an                                                              
exploration license."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAPPI said he has not seen that proposal.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  said the  legislature  adopted it  about                                                              
two years ago.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAPPI said he is not familiar with it.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  said it relies,  in large part,  on DNR's                                                              
regulatory scheme which was being promulgated.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAPPI  said that as  part of the  shallow gas leasing  program                                                              
there were  changes that defined  a shallow  gas well as  one that                                                              
was drilled  for gas at less than  3,000 feet, "and I  don't think                                                              
that   those  provisions   were  changed   when  the   legislature                                                              
abolished the shallow gas leasing program."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG told Mr. Craig to take a look at it.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:55:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM WHITE,  Alaskan Crude, informed  the committee that  crude has                                                              
been produced and  sold in Alaska for almost 100  years.  He knows                                                              
of  no  Alaskan  that  is producing  or  selling  crude,  and  his                                                              
friends  in  Oklahoma   and  Texas  "think  it   is  an  atrocious                                                              
circumstance."    He  said  that  it is  a  systemic  problem  and                                                              
without  change  there  will  be  another  100  years  without  an                                                              
Alaskan producing  crude in  the state.   The bulk of  this wealth                                                              
leaves the state,  he said, and this should be  the most important                                                              
thing the  legislature should  address in the  next session.   The                                                              
state disallowed  the landowner  from owning their  minerals since                                                              
1958.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING said  that those  that he  has served  with in  the                                                              
legislature have been friendly toward the industry.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE said, "If  you were to pick a state and  a plan to limit                                                              
competition for  a country  or an area,  you got the  perfect road                                                              
map."   He said Alaska  has been producing  oil for decades  and a                                                              
person could count  the producers on one or two hands.   To change                                                              
the  roadmap, he  said, "You  need to  gut the  regulation and  go                                                              
back and take a look at all these issues."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:00:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked about a distinction between a 500-                                                                
barrel  prospect,  and  how  one   could  determine  that  without                                                              
seismic data.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WHITE answered  that often  a  fairly accurate  guess can  be                                                              
made from previous  drilling in the  area.  He said he  is getting                                                              
ready to re-enter  a well that was  drilled in 1985 and  closed in                                                              
1986  and has  enough information  to guess  the well's  potential                                                              
output.   To re-enter  requires a  six-month, $70,000  contingency                                                              
plan process, and it is outrageous, he opined.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said it makes it difficult to define it.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE said there are ways to make reasonable projections.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG said  with Mr.  Donkel's suggested  self-                                                              
insurance, a producer would not have that limitation.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WHITE  said, "Before  that  tanker  run  into that  rock  and                                                              
spilled  all  that  oil  down  there,   I'm  having  a  hard  time                                                              
connecting  what's  relevant between  the  tanker  running into  a                                                              
rock and me  drilling a well."   He said he has no  knowledge of a                                                              
well  blowing out  in  all the  years  of Alaska  oil  production,                                                              
"that hadn't been cleaned up by the guy that blew it out."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:06:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG   said  that  was  because   there  is  a                                                              
regulatory requirement to clean it up.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE said  he knows if he  doesn't build a well  according to                                                              
industry  practices  and  state  rules,  the state  can  shut  the                                                              
production  down  and  impose a  fine.    He  said the  state  has                                                              
"absolute overkill in policing wells."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG   said  he  doesn't  disagree,   but  the                                                              
public's perception  is that  the government  is going  to protect                                                              
the  environment on  one  hand and  encourage  development on  the                                                              
other.  He asked how to design a statute to do that.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WHITE asked  what problems  the  state had  prior to  current                                                              
rules.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  said there wasn't the  political pressure                                                              
to keep the environment clean.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WHITE said  the  environment was  clean  and problems  didn't                                                              
happen.   If they did happen,  he continued, operators  would lose                                                              
their bonds and they would be out of business.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG said  the state  needs to design  statute                                                              
to  avoid a  fly-by-night  entity "with  no  recourse, no  balance                                                              
sheet,  and walking  out  the door  after he  mucks  up the  drill                                                              
site."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE  said that there is  an arduous set of  circumstances to                                                              
comply  with  prior  to permitting,  and  the  AOGCC  polices  the                                                              
industry.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  expressed concern about a  potential fly-                                                              
by-night  LLC,  and  stressed  that  the  state  needed  to  limit                                                              
bureaucracy at the same time as protecting the public interest.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:12:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE said  a fly-by-night person would not  have the finances                                                              
to  drill a  well.   He  discussed the  ability  of a  "home-grown                                                              
Alaskan" entering  the oil business and keeping  the wealth within                                                              
the state.  He  suggested that Alaska will become  a ghost town if                                                              
Alaskans are kept from getting into the oil business.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further business  before the committee,  the House                                                              
Special  Committee  on  Oil  and  Gas  meeting  was  adjourned  at                                                              
4:15:28 PM.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects